Talk:Orson Welles' head

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JediRogue: Regarding your move, I thought the possessive case of words ending in an S actually just required the apostrophe. I had reverted an edit of yours once, and even provided a link to a conversation Svip and Teyrn of Highever had about this. And furthermore, isn't Welles a last name? Sanfazer 23:14, 8 January 2011 (CET)

The problem with possessives is that there is an argument between writers about this. Some say that add the apostrophe and some say don't. JediRogue and I learned one style and Svip learned another. I say undo the changes and add something in the Infosphere's manual of style to clarify for other users and avoid inconsistency. Teyrn of Highever 23:24, 8 January 2011 (CET)
That is a good idea. (It'd be in the Language section, wouldn't it?) Looks like we're just gonna have to wait for an admin to "dictate the rules", then. Sanfazer 16:15, 9 January 2011 (CET)
Other than the apostrophe issue, can anyone think of anything else that should be added? The only thing I can think of is the serial comma. It is only mentioned in relation to a specific article name. Teyrn of Highever 19:57, 9 January 2011 (CET)
The only thing I am worried about is that by making these suggestions, we stray to close to a specific variant of English. That could cause problems for other users. Just going to wait for an admin. Teyrn of Highever 19:59, 9 January 2011 (CET)
From what I understood, you can use BrE everywhere, except for the title of pages. Example: Walt, Larry and Igner. That's good enough for me. Sanfazer 20:12, 9 January 2011 (CET)
Another example: Mom. Sanfazer 20:17, 9 January 2011 (CET)
That's just it, "can". By adding to the manual of style we restrict to certain variants, removing choice. Still, no point worrying. At least not until an admin says something. Teyrn of Highever 20:42, 9 January 2011 (CET)
The only place you can't use your preferred English variant is in pre-existing articles that you aren't overhauling, date formats and names of places and people (no calling Mom "Mum", okay to call Inez "Amy's Mum" although I'd prefer "mother" over either in such cases). I'm actually unsure which I learnt for family names but this site (by a fellow Australian) says both are acceptable even though she seems to prefer without (which is what I think I learned and probably did). I have been working on the general rule that if it has an 's' on the end adding apostrophe indicates ownership, if it has no 's' you need to add "'s". If it needs to be pluralised do that first, then follow this rule. - Quolnok 22:43, 9 January 2011 (CET)
I would willing argue that ' often represents a removal of a part of a word, e.g. nothin', though from the context (of lacking an s on the end in most cases), it is pretty clear what is being said.
I took the liberty of adding it to the MoS. My main concern is 'standardisation'. I would prefer that all -'s head were treated the same way. Or generally possessives in titles. If Santa Claus is treated different than Orson Welles, I think there is a problem. So where do we stand? The style I learnt is the same as Quolnok. We use the same style in my native language, Danish, which doesn't include an apostrophe in general (e.g. 'Hans vs. 'Peters'), but that's another subject.. --Sviptalk 02:40, 10 January 2011 (CET)
Good to know. So, does this mean the article will be moved back? Sanfazer 18:29, 10 January 2011 (CET)
What am I saying? Of course it does! Sanfazer 22:22, 11 January 2011 (CET)
Moved it. Sanfazer 22:36, 11 January 2011 (CET)
Okay, if you revert my edit because I'm wrong, especially more than once, you have to assume I didn't see the first time and go to my talk page. I only just saw this was moved back. Second, the apostrophe is still followed by the s if the name ends in s. It only doesn't if it is a plural possessive ending in s. See: [1]. Like I said, it's not a bunch of guys named Orson Welle whose head this is. I'm very pro standardization but at least make sure the rule is correct. It may be that there are different rules outside of the US but I don't believe I've ever heard that it was correct the other way. Usually it is that someone does not know the rule. Frankly however, if it is a matter of british vs american, I would think that, because the show is American, that would take some precedence. —JediRogue 04:50, 26 February 2011 (CET)
Here it is on Wikipedia [2] cited from the MLA handbook as well. Again, you don't drop the trailing s with proper nouns (Jimmy Jones's hat). Normal nouns (all the boys' hats) is when it is correct to drop the S. —JediRogue 04:57, 26 February 2011 (CET)
While I agree with you, MLA is just for Americans. And while the is a large group of Americans on this site, to the best of my knowledge this rule was instituted when Europeans outnumbered Americans. While I believe that Americans are now in a majority, changing it now would only cause trouble for everyone. Teyrn of Highever 12:51, 26 February 2011 (CET)